Aerobic base work is for losers? (video)
By aamover | October 29th, 2009
If you thought eliminating squats from the weight
room was tough to swallow, you’re going to completely
lose your mind when you see the video Mike Boyle
put out today.
And if you coach track athletes, soccer players or
any sports requiring ‘endurance’, you might be a
little upset. Or a lot.
So I stole the video and put it on my blog so I
could respond to the comments you’ll likely have.
I couldn’t have picked a better clip myself. I’m a
huge fan and follower of the sprints coach he bases
his argument on and it has brought me full circle
in my development of speed/power athletes.
Click here for more about Functional Strength Coach 3.0
To your success,
Latif Thomas
------------------------------
Spread the Word:
digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Blogmemes
Ask Jeeves
Furl
Reddit
Rojo
Simpy
Spurl
Socialize It
Earthlink
Google
Netscape
Windows Live
Yahoo
------------------------------
This entry was posted on Thursday, October 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pm and is filed under Speed Training . You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Mike Boyle is my boy! I’ve know him for a while and see him at all the Perform Better Seminars! He tell it like it is. Keep exposing those fitness myths!!
WWW.REACTFITNESS.COM
WWW.THEDANARICHPROJECT.COM
October 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
This is great information. Latif, I think you have known this for a long time as well though as your complete speed training program reflects this. I have only run over 600m about twice in the past year, yet I still feel very conditioned compared to other athletes in my area. Like you say, you can’t get faster without training fast.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Charlie is the man. Thanks to him this is common knowledge around my area.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
This is Rob (from the Netherlands). This is getting better every day and it’s fitting in the CST way of life. ” It’s all about speed.” This week i skipped the “double leg” conventional squat out of my program and long runs more than 300 yards where not in it. It’s not easy here to confince someone guys overhere so most of the times i’m training solo instead off together, but i beleive in this. Keep on going. Greeting from a true beleiver of CST.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
I met Boyle last years - great coach!
October 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Finally some true love and recognition for Charlie Francis. This is nice to hear because there is always a tendency to follow and go back to the typical norms that I was trained throughout HS and College. No more excuses!
October 29th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I totally agree that mere aerobic activity diminshes performance. Still disagree with the squat theory though.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Latif,
Isn’t alot of your success as a track coach and all the records and championships you talk about based on interval training?
>>> Of course. And I’ll still do interval work. I just think most people train too slow in their intervals and/or do too much steady state running as a significant part of their training for their sport. Maybe I don’t understand the question.
LT
October 29th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I agree with this training concept, but it’s nothing that revolutionary. The professor in my S&C class several years ago taught us exactly what he’s saying in this video: most team sports are anaerobic in nature and doing a lot of aerobic training will decrease the athlete’s strength/power capabilities and actually inhibit muscle growth. We were also taught that interval training was superior to aerobic training for fat loss and improving VO2 max. (He even went as far as telling us that we could get pretty decent VO2 measures without doing anything specifically for conditioning, if we set up the proper parameters on our weight training. And no, he didn’t mean circuit training.) So I agree that aerobic training is dead (at least for strength/power athletes), but I’m not sold on the squat theory. I don’t think his math is quite realistic. He totally ignores the fact that even with unilateral lifts, both legs do contribute to some extent, unless you’re doing pistol type squats. And there’s no way that single leg lifts develop the core “bracing” strength of bilateral lifts.
>>>You’re right, it’s not revolutionary. Common knowledge to you. Common knowledge to me. But not common knowledge to 90% of the sports coaches working with athletes at the sub collegiate level. I work at a high school. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that before I got there two years ago, 100 meter runners ran mileage on the roads. Field and court sport athletes’ base training is road work not intervals. This is the reality at the developmental levels. In terms of squats, you don’t have to agree. And if you haven’t seen FSC 3, I’m not sure you can really say what he ‘ignores’ and doesn’t ignore. I’m going to test it out before I come to a concreate conclusion. I recommend everyone else do the same.
Latif
October 30th, 2009 at 1:42 am
Always good to see my go to guys (Latif, Pat & Mike Boyle) singing from the same hymn sheet!
Charlie Francis was ahead of his time, as is Mike Boyle, but there are a fortunate few of us who are fortunate enough to learn from you guys.
One question/ comment- I agree with & use intervals for pro athletes, physically developed athletes & adults, but as Mike said in the clip, Aerobic training IS good for beginners- I do some (once a wk MAX) aerobic training (steady state long aerobic) with my ‘FUNdamentals’ Youth athletes (10-12) as part of my LTAD philosophy… do I need to re-think this?
>>> It’s true. Most people won’t learn from these guys and that’s more who I’m talking to - the huge number of coaches who think that ‘going for a run’ is an acceptable method of conditioning athletes. I don’t think you need to think the 1x/week steady state run for your beginners. He even says it’s OK, in moderation, for beginners who are so unconditioned that they can’t even do interval work. I would keep doing what you’re doing. The fact that you know *why* you’re doing it is what is important. Because most coaches at the youth level have absolutely no idea why they’re doing anything.
LT
October 30th, 2009 at 2:25 am
I am not a fan of Aerobic based training especially at the preseason phase of my program,which is based on plyo for speed and power/strength,so no real surprises there,BUT,as we get closer too competition my focus will turn towards some aerobic work thru my anaerobic program,as this has worked for my players previously,i hope this makes sense, a big fan Eru.
October 30th, 2009 at 4:53 am
latif, i wrote you a couple of blogs ago about my son, 11yrs old, ran 12.87 two years ago, now fastest time last year was 12.64. and asked you what was wrong, you send me your email to send a video, i have video now, but lost your email, can i get it again?
October 30th, 2009 at 5:11 am
I am a fan of aerobic training IF it supports your training needs as Mike points out. The physical demands of my military assignments (running and fin swimming) required that. Now that I am retired, although I intellectually know I don’t ‘need’ it there is still some anxiety (after over a year now) associated with not doing it. It does not help me in the physical activities I am choosing to do now. Reassuring to hear a confirming observation!
October 30th, 2009 at 8:43 am
I agree that aerobic training needs to be implemented into a program ‘if’ it supports the demands of the sport. I also believe that it can be used for restoration when needed, regardless of sport.
As for squats, Olympic squats and front squats, I have not used them for many years. They build great strength, not speed. Nor do I have athletes do leg curls, as it contradicts proper hamstring/gluteus function. These exercises have been eliminated from my programs since the early 90’s
The ‘good morning’ exercise and its variations is superior to all other strength and conditioning exercises in any athletic program. It does transfer over to improve speed, strength, endurance and conditioning; all vital developments for any given sport.
October 30th, 2009 at 9:51 am
This is some BS. 1st you are saying stop the most functional exercise known to man; the squat. Now you are saying that interval and cross country training is the downfall to an athlete. Maybe it is not the sport but the training program. This is insane, to say the least.
>>> I know you’re a crossfit guy, so your opinion is biased. And I have no problem with that. But the squat is the most functional lift for who? Athletes? I have to disagree. Outside of a rebound in basketball, a spike/block in volleyball and possibly a header in soccer, when is an athlete coming out of a squat position? Never. So, by definition, I can’t call that a ‘functional’ lift. Athletes do nearly everything off of one leg. So, in terms of ‘function’ training them to be powerful and explosive off of one leg sounds like the most functional thing you can do.
Interval training is not the downfall to an athlete and no one said that. Unless you’re using interval work at mechanically inefficient intensities *and* as the primary method of conditioning athletes for their sport. I use repeat 200s with my sprinters. As aerobic capacity work in the prep periods and maybe as active recovery during the competitive periods. But 8 out of 10 track coaches at the HS level use repeat 200s as the *primary* method of training athletes. Steady state runs at aerobic pace is the downfall to athletes. I’ve seen enough 100m runners, football players and even soccer players out running on the roads as a statistically significant percentage of their training. That’s just bad coaching and it’s the norm not the exception at the sub collegiate levels, regardless of sport.
Cross country is good for one thing - cross country runners. Other than that, having a 200m runner, a basketball player, etc. run cross country to ‘get in shape’ is completely ridiculous. I see no viable argument to the contrary, but would love to hear one.
I agree, if I understand you correctly, that the problem is probably the training program and not the sport. But most coaches and trainers, especially at the subcollegiate levels, don’t know the first thing about creating and/or implementing an effective training program.
So, with respect, I don’t think your argument is based on experience working with athletes, particularly athletes at the developmental levels.
Howard, I’m curious - have you received your copy of and reviewed Functional Strength Coach 3? Or are you basing your entire opinion on 9 minutes of clips? If you reviewed hours of discussion on the topic and tested it out and came to the conclusion you still like squats and distance runs, I can respect that. But if you’re just reacting emotionally because Boyle called out CrossFit, then I would argue that your opinion is insane, to say the least.
Latif
October 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
I’ve followed Boyle for a few years; Latif Thomas is providing a contemporary and ever evolving approach to training. This is the way we should approach our craft. I coach collegiate jumpers; we complete a series of 6 X 150 “strides” as the longest rep / preseason. My plan doesn’t exceed 80 meters; we also use 10,20,30 and 40 m repeats, interspersed with med ball work between runs. Squatting is one of the most overrated exercises for track and field jumpers; some see this as heresy, but if you do the homework (as Boyle and Thomas) you might re-think your ideaology.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I respect Mike Boyle as a coach because he has been doing his job for a number of years and has got great success but RE the squats, i think its not correct to completely cut them out! It does not make sense. Show me a lower Bi lateral ex that is not a lower back workout
First of all, by cutting out squats,l you will still make improvements because there is a wide variety of exercises to choose from!
To do a squat properly(right down to heels with Back straight and vertical) is the pinnacle of mobility and i find 99% of people cannot do that! Thats why people should work themselves up to doing a squat capably! By doing exercises to develop the mobility to do one properly